1 2 3 4 5 6 Previous Next 75 Replies Latest reply on Jan 15, 2008 2:35 PM by sait Go to original post
      • 45. Re: Download JBDS or
        maxandersen

         

        "You ask someone from the community to contribute the work needed for doing that, but you already did that and sell it for 99$.If it can be done free what are you selling?"
        


        You answered a big part of this question in your followup:

        "we have to ensure all work well together,we have to check plugins are compatible with each other, and we have to worry about updating parts that may not work and if we are left with any spare time we HAVE TO CODE!!!"
        


        So in short - if you want to save the time to setup up your ide and environment plus want to be sure you can get support for the environment when you go to production then pay the 99$ and you are set to go (with the addition you get access to RHEL etc.)

        If you don't think that is worth 99$ then download community JBoss, Eclipse, Seam and JBoss Tools and set it up (as you would have to do with all other free tooling AFAIK!) and you are ready to go with the same functionallity (except it is not based on the supported environment, e.g. JBoss EAP)

        It the end it means you have the full set of options available to you.



        • 46. Re: Download JBDS or

          In both answers I see that using open-source tools is cumbersome according to JBoss who says it supports open-source, who says it thinks the future is in open-source...

          "Open source and open mind" is 99$...

          If you don't think that is worth 99$ then download community JBoss, Eclipse, Seam and JBoss Tools and set it up (as you would have to do with all other free tooling AFAIK!) and you are ready to go with the same functionallity (except it is not based on the supported environment, e.g. JBoss EAP)


          When I do this,will I not be able to get support from the jboss community forums where community&main developers support each other?Let me guess, forums will be full of posts regarding this JBDS,and people who dont use JBDS will not be able to get easy answers,etc...In the end this so called community will be a closed JDBS community...

          I started using RHDS&JBossAS because of Seam like many others do IMHO.This 99$ will have a harmful effect on Seam too...

          And also,what is the value added to RedHat/JBoSS by this 99$,I dont think it is much!

          • 47. Re: Download JBDS or
            amitev

            Sefai, the time you waisted for complaining today was enough time to download the jboss projects and make JBDS-like bundle yourself :)

            "Sefai" wrote:

            When I do this,will I not be able to get support from the jboss community forums where community&main developers support each other?Let me guess, forums will be full of posts regarding this JBDS,and people who dont use JBDS will not be able to get easy answers,etc...In the end this so called community will be a closed JDBS community...


            This isn't true at all!

            • 48. Re: Download JBDS or
              maxandersen

              Sefai - if you don't think there is any value in the tooling bundle + entitlement to RHEL for 99$ why are you complaining when you can get *all* the functionallity for free - you just need to set the things up your self ?

              And if the answers and questions to JBDS are in these forums why do you think you won't be able to use them in JBoss tools ?

              We have community support here in the forums for Jboss Tools just like we have for Seam and JBoss AS and all our other products - but if you want to have a guranteed answer then you get the support subscription!

              The 99$ is *not* just about getting the tools prepackaged, it is about getting a full development platform which will be supported the day you want to go to production.

              • 49. Re: Download JBDS or


                I see two exits to this problem:

                Since all components are open source

                1. Somebody can pay $99, and set up Torrent with JDBS

                2. Or build an Alternative JBDS, and share the bundle file. The only problem is to re-do (again) the work already done with JDBS with Beta and RC releases.

                Regards,
                Eric

                • 50. Re: Download JBDS or

                  I am not complaining here,I am criticizing this new JBoss corporate policy...amitev, how do you think JBoss will supply this "guranteed answer", first solve the subscribers problems, then community maybe...



                  Sefai - if you don't think there is any value in the tooling bundle + entitlement to RHEL for 99$ why are you complaining when you can get *all* the functionallity for free - you just need to set the things up your self ?


                  you got me wrong, I was asking what income/revenue can this 99$ provide to JBoss, 50$ for MyEclipse, I can understand that, it is a small company compared to RedHat/JBoss...

                  I am not talking about free support, you can sell the support for 9999$, its your know-how, its your right to sell it. I am just saying this: hundreds of people will strugle with eclipse and this free tools, and several will give up and look for something else(some may pay 99$ of course). Do not let them struggle, give the prepackaged IDE free, sell the support at whatever price you want.

                  This is my last comment about this issue by the way...

                  • 51. Re: Download JBDS or
                    amitev

                     

                    "max.andersen@jboss.com" wrote:

                    Down the road I hope we will have time/resources to add a bundle of the community projects of JBoss AS and Seam with Eclipse and our plugins, but right now we are focusing on doing the bundle of the*supported* binaries.

                    Would be great if someone from the community would steps up and contribute the work needed for doing it - it is opensource afterall!


                    So anyone interested on the bundle can gather the projects together to make the same bundles as JDBS...

                    • 52. Re: Download JBDS or
                      maxandersen

                      1) sure - if you want to break the EULA license.

                      2) Feel free to do that just remember to rebrand it. But it seems noone reads the announcement and realizes that the thing we bundle in JBDS is the supported versions build which is not publical available hence it is *not* the same as the latest community release of jboss as/seam etc. It's the stable supported branch.


                      • 53. Re: Download JBDS or
                        maxandersen

                         


                        "Sefai" wrote:
                        I am not complaining here,I am criticizing this new JBoss corporate policy...amitev, how do you think JBoss will supply this "guranteed answer", first solve the subscribers problems, then community maybe...


                        Could you please explain me how this is different from the normal support for the appserver/frameworks ? This is also how Glassfish/Sun does it and its how it has been done for JBoss AS and Red Hat Linux for a long time. That did not cause any melt down of the community support did it ?


                        Sefai - if you don't think there is any value in the tooling bundle + entitlement to RHEL for 99$ why are you complaining when you can get *all* the functionallity for free - you just need to set the things up your self ?


                        you got me wrong, I was asking what income/revenue can this 99$ provide to JBoss, 50$ for MyEclipse, I can understand that, it is a small company compared to RedHat/JBoss...


                        If you don't think it is worth 99$ then don't buy it. We are not forcing you.


                        I am not talking about free support, you can sell the support for 9999$, its your know-how, its your right to sell it.


                        I find it pretty harsh to require 9999$ to get access to try out the supported bundle; for 99$ its accessible to all who is interested in getting supported software. If you don't want commercial supported software use the freely available community version.


                        I am just saying this: hundreds of people will strugle with eclipse and this free tools, and several will give up and look for something else(some may pay 99$ of course). Do not let them struggle, give the prepackaged IDE free, sell the support at whatever price you want.


                        We are going in circles here....we are lowering the price greatly to give you access to the supported binaries. If you don't want these then instead of 99$ you need to do a few steps on your own - just follow the docs.


                        • 54. Re: Download JBDS or


                          Max,

                          Thinking to repack and distribute an alternative to JBDS, Did you have to fix anything special for JBDS ? or Is it only a repack ?

                          I think the most difficult task It's to avoid forgetting something, like Documentation and Path Settings.

                          Do you have an instructions list or notes about how to build an Eclipse with all inside ?


                          PD: 2008 is a good year to start projects.

                          Regards,
                          Eric

                          • 55. Create you Personal Developer Studio

                            Hi!
                            In facto repacking is not that hard, i have just finished creating my own "personal developer studio":

                            Just download:
                            http://www.eclipse.org/downloads/moreinfo/jee.php
                            Then
                            http://labs.jboss.com/tools/download/index.html
                            Then
                            http://springide.org/updatesite/
                            Then
                            http://testng.org/doc/download.html
                            Then
                            http://labs.jboss.com/jbossseam/
                            and
                            http://labs.jboss.com/jbossas/

                            And finally, for an extra advantage, don't forget to add the free Aptana (http://update.aptana.com/install/3.2/) plugin to your personal developer studio.

                            Oh... and http://subclipse.tigris.org/ if you are working with subversion.

                            It will take 1 or 2 days... must of the time is wasted waiting for the downloads to finish.

                            I have been thinking about writing a tutorial on how I did it...

                            • 56. Re: Download JBDS or

                              Hi!
                              So far, the only problems I have had with my "personally built developer studio" are:

                              -A particular computer (it works fine 2 others) where the JBoss Visual Designer doesnt work http://jira.jboss.org/jira/browse/JBDS-84

                              -When creating a project using JBoss 4.2.2 and Seam 1.2 it adds a line in the web.config that it is needed for MyFaces, but JBoss 4.2.2 no longer uses myfaces, so you have to delete that line.

                              Regards,

                              • 57. Re: Download JBDS or

                                I meant the web.xml not the web.config, sorry, I was thinkig in .NET ;)

                                • 58. Re: Download JBDS or


                                  luxspes, yes, a complete tutorial about how to build the perfect customized Eclipse with Jboss.

                                  If you upload at the wiki, everybody can colaborate.

                                  I always found daunting the task. For example, integrating the docs.


                                  Regards,
                                  Eric

                                  • 59. Re: Download JBDS or
                                    maxandersen

                                    Putting this in the wiki would be good.

                                    About docs then I'm not sure what you refer to since we deliberatly is not bundling all the docs - they are available publically from JBDS. Down the road we might do an eclipse help build but that is not the case at the moment.

                                    About Seam 1.2.x seam-gen issues then you need the source for Seam 1.2.1.AP found in that branch in seam cvs.

                                    btw. remember to strip out the branding if you publish this; if something in the source needs to be adjusted to accomdate that please feel free to contribute that back to jboss tools.