1 2 3 4 5 Previous Next 118 Replies Latest reply: Apr 28, 2013 10:49 PM by Tony Herstell Go to original post Branched to a new discussion. RSS
  • 30. Re: Jboss 7.1.2.Final is only for EAP?
    Savas Ali Tokmen Newbie

    Hi Jaikiran

     

    Thank you for these details. One important point, thought: Paul Gier and Joel Orlina would be very sad by reading your comment about availability of JBoss artifacts in Maven2 Central; as all of them actually are: read more on http://community.jboss.org/wiki/MavenRepositoryCentralSynchronization

     

    Maybe I could ask them to produce the artifacts for Maven2 Central from the tag; the nice part is that the "official" package would then be downloadable from http://repo1.maven.org/maven2/org/jboss/as/jboss-as-dist/7.1.1.Final/

     

    Cheers

  • 31. Re: Jboss 7.1.2.Final is only for EAP?
    jaikiran pai Master

    Savas Ali Tokmen wrote:

     

    Hi Jaikiran

     

    Thank you for these details. One important point, thought: Paul Gier and Joel Orlina would be very sad by reading your comment about availability of JBoss artifacts in Maven2 Central; as all of them actually are: read more on http://community.jboss.org/wiki/MavenRepositoryCentralSynchronization

     

    Actually, I was aware that Paul and his team were working on synchronizing JBoss project artifacts to Maven central but wasn't aware that they had managed to synchronize JBoss AS project artifacts too. So yeah, I either missed some mail or just didn't watch the progress.

  • 32. Re: Jboss 7.1.2.Final is only for EAP?
    Frank Cornelis Newbie

    How about the jboss-as-arquillian-container-remote 7.1.2.Final and the entire bunch of 7.1.2.Final dependencies that come along? What's actually the problem of pushing 7.1.2.Final into a Maven repo and public download? This takes like 1-2 hours of work... and will cause more developers to test out 7.1.2.Final, getting more issues reported, and thus get a better 7.1.3.Final, and better EAP, thus more happy paying customers. I really don't get it...

  • 33. Re: Jboss 7.1.2.Final is only for EAP?
    Radim Kolář Newbie

    I do not think that Glassfish is better then JBOSS. I had 3.1.1 and 3.1.2 glassfish in production and it was so unstable that server was not able to run without major slowdowns or hangs for week. I migrated that to JBOSS 7.1.0 and all problems went away. I also submitted few bug reports for glassfish and none was fixed. Good glassfish points are: very good web console and good documentation.

     

    For production server running important applications you need commercional web server: Websphere or Weblogic.

  • 34. Re: Jboss 7.1.2.Final is only for EAP?
    Justin Bertram Master

    As far as jboss-as-arquillian-container-remote goes, that gets installed in your local repo when you 'install' jboss-as.

     

    As far as the benefit to EAP goes for pushing 7.1.2.Final into Maven, etc. - I'm not sure that there is any.  Users will continue exercising 7.1.1.Final and reporting new issues, and users will also get 7.2.0.Alpha1 and report issues there as well.  In both cases, any fix which EAP wants can be moved over.

     

    Even if you grant that pushing 7.1.2.Final into Maven, etc. would result in a better EAP you could repeat that argument ad infinitum - the longer you test the better it gets so just keep testing.  However, at some point you just have to release something that is deemed "good enough" because there will always be bugs.  Of course, there will always be debate about what "good enough" actually is, but for EAP that decision has essentially been made.  The community version has already moved beyond 7.1.x and is on to 7.2.x so there are already fixes in the community version that will not appear in EAP.  That is the nature of the beast with a community/enterprise split.  The community moves quickly - fixing bugs, incorporating new features, and pushing new releases often.  The enterprise version has a more deliberate and predictable pace - pulling back fixes from the community, fixing bugs which customers report, implementing features which customers request, incorporating community features as appropriate, and pushing updates at regular intervals.  But I digress.

  • 35. Re: Jboss 7.1.2.Final is only for EAP?
    Savas Ali Tokmen Newbie

    How about the jboss-as-arquillian-container-remote 7.1.2.Final and the entire bunch of 7.1.2.Final dependencies that come along? What's actually the problem of pushing 7.1.2.Final into a Maven repo and public download? This takes like 1-2 hours of work... and will cause more developers to test out 7.1.2.Final, getting more issues reported, and thus get a better 7.1.3.Final, and better EAP, thus more happy paying customers. I really don't get it...

     

    I agree with Frank. Having all tags done on the JBoss public source code also released on Maven Central would be a proof of the commitment of JBoss to openness.

  • 36. Re: Jboss 7.1.2.Final is only for EAP?
    James Perkins Master

    Convenience is not equal to openness. And really, not to split hairs, but it's Open Source not Open Binaries. I could just be missing the point though.

     

    Building from source is pretty easy with GitHub and Maven. Even if you don't want to bother with GitHub, you can download the source and build it fairly easily.

     

    Just my opinion.

    --

    James R. Perkins

  • 37. Re: Jboss 7.1.2.Final is only for EAP?
    Jason Greene Master

    Just an update we are going to bring in the 7.2 schedule. I'm still working out the details.I just want to let you guys know I am not ignoring you.

  • 38. Re: Jboss 7.1.2.Final is only for EAP?
    henk de boer Master

    Interesting for this thread perhaps, JBoss EAP 6 (love the version number), has been released yesterday: http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20120620005266/en/Red-Hat-Launches-JBoss-Enterprise-Application-Platform

  • 39. Re: Jboss 7.1.2.Final is only for EAP?
    Hauke Mehrtens Newbie

    Thanks for providing the source for JBoss-AS 7.1.2 and the good build system, building is very easy. Will also all upcoming security updates for the JBoss EAP be integrated into the source code of the community edition released at github?

     

    Is there a community like CentOS for Red Hat Enterprise Linux for JBoss-AS which provided security updates for the community edition?

     

    Is it allowed to distribute a own build of the JBoss 7.1.2 source code  without any modifications to costumers or to the world?

  • 40. Re: Jboss 7.1.2.Final is only for EAP?
    Aliaksei Lahachou Newbie

    OK, I can grab the sources and build 7.1.2.Final. But I still don't understand why JBoss cannot put 7.1.2.Final on downloads page and in JBoss Maven repo?

  • 41. Re: Jboss 7.1.2.Final is only for EAP?
    henk de boer Master

    Aliaksei Lahachou wrote:

     

    OK, I can grab the sources and build 7.1.2.Final. But I still don't understand why JBoss cannot put 7.1.2.Final on downloads page and in JBoss Maven repo?

     

    I can't speak for JBoss, but I think it's because JBoss, like every other open source company is struggeling with monetizing their hard work. Don't give the user any source and you're not an open source vendor, give the user everything (including full source, binaries and timely updates) and nobody will get the paid version.

     

    The model of JBoss is that we get the AS releases for free and pay by being implicit bug/beta testers. Once the software is sufficiently stable, an EAP release is made and for that specific version we aren't needed anymore for the beta testing, so we also don't get binaries anymore. The cycle then continues with the next major release. E.g. 7.2 will need beta testing again, so for that an AS version will be made available on the download page.

     

    It doesn't mean that AS releases are inherently unstable, and they are quite useable by themselves, but they do contain bugs and those bugs are being fixed for the EAP release. Those bug fixes eventually will end up in the next major version (7.2 at the moment), but together with these bug fixes you also get new bugs en new instable features.

     

    So, IMHO that's why you can't download 7.1.2 directly. It's probably little more trouble for them than pressing a button on the jenkins build server, but they have to introduce some small barrier in order to make the AS releases a little less attractive. The barrier is really smal though, as they don't hide the source of EAP. You just have to build it yourself.

  • 42. Re: Jboss 7.1.2.Final is only for EAP?
    Aliaksei Lahachou Newbie

    Well, there are some value addons and support for EAP which are available only to paying customers. I don't think that it is possible to make more money by simply not putting binaries on download page.

     

    It was already asked several times:

    1. Is it allowed to make binaries available for download (like I already did here https://github.com/htfv/jboss-as/downloads)?

    2. Is it allowed to distribute them to customers?

     

    If I understand LGPL correctly, this should not be a problem.

  • 43. Re: Jboss 7.1.2.Final is only for EAP?
    henk de boer Master

    Aliaksei Lahachou wrote:

     

    It was already asked several times:

    1. Is it allowed to make binaries available for download (like I already did here https://github.com/htfv/jboss-as/downloads)?

     

    I would guess it has to be legal, but I'm also curious to see an official statement.

     

    The thing is though that at first people might not trust you. How can I be sure that you are a benovolant fellow programmer and not some jerk who has hidden some suprize in the binary? On the other hand, there is also some guy out there who puts OpenJDK builds for Mac OS X on a code.google download page, since for some unknown reason the OpenJDK community themselves refuse to release binary OS X builds. This guy seems be trusted and according to the download counters a lot of people download these.

     

    So this more or less answers the question that was posed earlier here: Do people trust builds that are not from the original team? Well, obviously they do...

  • 44. Re: Jboss 7.1.2.Final is only for EAP?
    Justin Bertram Master

    I don't believe the lack of a download for the JBoss AS 7.1.2 tag has much to do with monetizing JBoss AS.  JBoss already provides full source, binaries (for all releases, but not for all tags), and timely updates (depending on how "timely" is defined) to the community.  Furthermore, fixes to problems found by paying customers and features added which were requested by paying customers are also made available to the community. 

     

    Every customer is different, but I think it is fair to say that in general customers pay for support.  Of course, support means a lot of different things - everything from a simple ticket on the web portal to extended phone conversations and on-site visits for in-depth analysis or instruction.  People pay for support because it is valuable.  Bits are valuable as well, but as it relates to EAP that's not mainly what Red Hat sells.

     

    Ultimately, I believe the reason there is no binary download for the 7.1.2 tag is because that's just the way our community development worked in this case.  It's not as if there was ever going to be a 7.1.2 community release.  It is a tag for EAP, pure and simple.  Because EAP is using this tag doesn't mean that the community was therefore robbed of a release.  The 7.1.x series is (and has been) over in terms of community development, and focus has been shifted to 7.2.x (which I wouldn't describe as a "major" release).  The productization and QA teams at Red Hat have taken a cut from the 7.1 branch and run it through a large test-suite.  Any issues found were fixed for EAP and also went upstream into the community.  There are no losers here.

     

    Additionally, I wouldn't limit the role of the JBoss AS community to just "bug/beta testers."  The community certainly does find bugs and test beta versions, but that's not all they do.  Good ideas for new features, constructive criticism on implementation details, and suggestions for usability improvements often filter up through the community.  It's also worth pointing out that the stability of the software is one of numerous factors in the decision of when to take a cut from the community branch and turn it into an EAP release.  It's not as if the community does all (or most) of the heavy lifting and Red Hat picks off a hardened, stable release.

     

    At the end of the day, I agree with Aliaksei.  I don't think that it is possible for Red Hat to make more money by simply not putting binaries on download page.

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