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The next few Seam releases

Jason Porter Master

There were some ideas in the last Seam Development Meeting that I'd like to make a little more public and also get some feedback from the larger community.


With Apache DeltaSpike progressing and moving forward we have been asking ourselves what will be best for Seam 3. Some proposals, until DeltaSpike reaches stability:



  • Continue with 3.1.X releases with bug fixes, improved documentation and examples




  • Create a Seam 4 release using DeltaSpike Core instead of Solder to help ease migration. This would be EOL'd once DeltaSpike is stable.




  • Leave things as they currently stand and solely focus on work in DeltaSpike



Greater community involvement would be needed for the first two ideas to allow us to aid DeltaSpike moving forward and produce something better than Seam 3.


Please discuss your thoughts and ideas about the aforementioned points below.

  • 1. Re: The next few Seam releases
    hantsy bai Master

    Sounds great, but what will be included in the future Seam3 and Seam4, only none JEE CDI extension...such as reports, social?


    I hope the Apache DeltaSpike will be started quickly and be released a stable version as soon as possible. I really like some features from MyFaces CODI, which are lack in the Seam3 Faces.


    Another stupid question is about the performance of Seam3, I was impressed the bad performance in Seam2(complex request lifecycle), but in Seam3, it seems the response of a request is also not quick as My other JSF application(based on Spring). What slow down the request progress?

  • 2. Re: The next few Seam releases
    Jason Porter Master

    hantsy bai wrote on Jan 17, 2012 11:10:


    Sounds great, but what will be included in the future Seam3 and Seam4, only none JEE CDI extension...such as reports, social?


    Any next release will contain the same modules that exist today.



    I hope the Apache DeltaSpike will be started quickly and be released a stable version as soon as possible. I really like some features from MyFaces CODI, which are lack in the Seam3 Faces.


    It has been started and we're working towards our first release.



    Another stupid question is about the performance of Seam3, I was impressed the bad performance in Seam2(complex request lifecycle), but in Seam3, it seems the response of a request is also not quick as My other JSF application(based on Spring). What slow down the request progress?


    No clue. Have you profiled it?

  • 3. Re: The next few Seam releases
    gonzalad Apprentice

    Hello,


    DeltaSpike seems to be the future, so it seems to me that the efforts should be focused on it.



    Create a Seam 4 release using DeltaSpike Core instead of Solder

    I'm not sure what's the value of this proposition.


    Should'nt you wait on having Deltapike JSF / Transaction / Persistence finished and then only port the remaining Seam module on top of Deltaspike (i.e. Social, ...).



    Continue with 3.1.X releases with bug fixes, improved documentation and examples

    IMO, JSF2 / CDI samples are missing all over the web. So spending some time on them shouldn't be a waste I think (they should be ported easily to Deltaspike).


    Also, perhaps resolving only blocker bugs would interest Seam 3 community (don't know, I'm using Seam 2 for the moment).


    Improved docs for Seam 3 and non-blocker bug fixes shouldn't be the focus.




    Best regards,

  • 4. Re: The next few Seam releases
    Tony Herstell Master

    Improve docs.

  • 5. Re: The next few Seam releases
    Jason Porter Master

    Is there anyone else who would like to comment?

  • 6. Re: The next few Seam releases
    hantsy bai Master

    How about the effort of merging MyFaces CODI and Seam 3 into the Apache DeltaSpike? especially the JSF(Conversation, Transaction, Security), I used it frequently in these years. And other work, such as messages, transaction, persistence, security both are existed in MyFacesCODI and Seam3, any progress about these in Apache DeltaSpike?

  • 7. Re: The next few Seam releases
    Jason Porter Master

    hantsy bai wrote on Jan 23, 2012 23:45:


    How about the effort of merging MyFaces CODI and Seam 3 into the Apache DeltaSpike? especially the JSF(Conversation, Transaction, Security), I used it frequently in these years. And other work, such as messages, transaction, persistence, security both are existed in MyFacesCODI and Seam3, any progress about these in Apache DeltaSpike?



    Not yet. Currently DeltaSpike is focusing on merging Solder and MyFaces CODI Core before we get into other modules. If you would like to help out you can find the information at https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/DeltaSpike/Getting+Involved

  • 8. Re: The next few Seam releases
    Bernard Labno Master

    Jason, I think there can't be anything better than seam3 ;D.


    Ok, seriously, we need good literature that would discuss real life problems and their solutions in CDI/Seam/etc. Just like Dan Allen's Seam in Action. I know it's not on your list, but I think this is a key to get people dive into this not-so-easy world of powerful, yet very sofisticated tools.


    I vote for option number 3 (Leave things as they currently stand and solely focus on work in DeltaSpike).

  • 9. Re: The next few Seam releases
    Gaël Beaudoin Newbie

    Hi Jason,


    Thank you for asking the community. We delayed the migration from Seam 2 to Seam 3 indefinitely because of already mentioned problems (missing features from Seam2, mostly). It's already better in Seam 3.1.


    We're also waiting because we prefer to wait for new versions of hibernate (4.x), JSF (2.x) and JBoss, etc to mature and stabilize a little bit more.


    So I'd say put all your energy on something complete based on delta spike, make sure Seam 2 users feel at home, at least that feature parity is almost there and easily discoverable, and release early and often so that we can help, track progress and contribute comments and bugs and suggestions, why not code if time permits.


    Let's make Seam 4 rock ;)

  • 10. Re: The next few Seam releases
    Gaël Beaudoin Newbie

    I'd like to add that having a full featured application in the example (Seam Wiki by Christian Bauer IIRC) was very, very useful. So i'd say eat your own dog food so that you know what is missing and important, so that you really understand the why, etc. Write the new in.relation.to with the new stack. Or the new seamframework.org. Make it so good that people will absolutely want to use the underlying technology.

  • 11. Re: The next few Seam releases
    Paul Dijou Newbie

    Hi,


    I don't see the point of Seam 4 : having two half migration instead of a big one ? Not sure it would be really usefull. I prefer planning only one migration, even a bigger one (removing all Seam 3 dependencies, adding all Deltapike ones), and not two of them.


    Since Deltaspike seems to be the future of Seam, I would concentrate a maximum effort on it in order to have it release as soon as possible for incoming projects so they can use Deltaspike directly. And for Seam 3.x, only bug fixes and documentation corrections / improvements.


    Thanks for the work. Can't wait to see Seam 3 modules in Deltaspike.

  • 12. Re: The next few Seam releases
    Gaël Beaudoin Newbie

    I agree with you Paul Dijou. Saying Seam 4 was my way of saying Seam 3 with deltaspike. I don't care about the name. And yes, one big migration, as soon as possible, based on deltaspike would be great.

  • 13. Re: The next few Seam releases
    Thorsten Kunz Novice

    IMHO you should focus to get DeltaSpike ready ASAP. Seam 3 should go into maintenance mode with only bugs being fixed so that people who trusted the Seam project and switched to Seam 3 early are not left behind.

  • 14. Re: The next few Seam releases
    hantsy bai Master

    I have browsed the current work of Apache DeltaSpike, several features of Seam Solder are not included, such as logging, catch, servlet.


    For my opinion, I would like there is a maintenance plan of the current Seam3.x, but move all future effort to the Apache DeltaSpike. 

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